Tatras 2012 : official B.I.G meeting

Hi,

we're fetching 2 managers in Poland for the official annual great B.I.G meeting.

It will happen next year, from 4 to 9/7/2012 in CZ-SK-PL and notally the 3 last days in the Tatras with the polish bigs to climb.

1 manager must be english speaking and the other one must be a regional for helping about accomodations, ...

The managers must be present during the meeting.

Is there somebody interesting in ?

Thanks in advance !
Dan.

[quote="daniel gobert"]Is there somebody interesting in ?
quote]
I am "interested in" but as an scientist I can't predict what can happen next year. Recently an article appeared in RT http://www.rowertour.pl/?page=artykul&id=1227 and we can expect that somebody may ask us about this event. The best idea is to get at least the list of participants and to ask them what the want to see. BIGs are the one side, but there are at least 7 unesco sites, which can be interesting for some people (castles, biosphere reserves).

Thank you Michalk, that eventually wrote an article about BIG.
As a scientist, too 'scientific' approach the topic 'BIG in the Tatras. "
It is clear that a party must show by doing some other places and monuments, not just the BIG driveways.

I organized dozens of rallies cycling.
Maybe we worked together with this organization?
I am from the organizational side, and you from the 'scientific'?
Unfortunately, I only know English from scratch, which discriminates against me as an organizer, first of all on site.

PL
Dzięki Ci Michalk, że w końcu napisałeś artykuł o BIG.
Jako naukowiec zbyt 'naukowo' podchodzisz do tematu 'BIG w Tatrach'.
To jest jasne, że robiąc imprezę trzeba pokazać też inne miejsca i zabytki, a nie tylko podjazdy BIG.

Organizowałem już dziesiątki rajdów kolarskich.
Może byśmy współpracowali razem przy tej organizacji ?
Ja od strony organizacyjnej, a Ty od 'naukowej' ?
Niestety angielski znam tylko od podstaw, co mnie dyskryminuje jako organizatora, przede wszystkim na miejscu.

DE
Danke Michalk, die schließlich schrieb einen Artikel über BIG.
Als Wissenschaftler, auch "wissenschaftlich" nähern sich dem Thema 'BIG in der Hohen Tatra. "
Es ist klar, dass eine Partei muss dabei einige andere Orte und Denkmäler, nicht nur die großen Einfahrten zu zeigen.

Ich organisierte Dutzende von Versammlungen Radfahren.
Vielleicht haben wir mit dieser Organisation?
Ich bin von der organisatorischen Seite, und Sie von der "wissenschaftlichen"?
Leider kenne ich nur Englisch von Grund auf, die gegen mich diskriminiert als Veranstalter, vor allem vor Ort.

Hi, thank you for the text in the magazine, Michal and thanks both for helping in the next meeting.
Let's sum up what exists until now

1) Workers/Managers
CZ : VANIS Pavel, MORAVEC Kamil
SK : SASIK Ratislav, SLOPOVSKI Pavel
PL : KSIASZKIEWICZ Michal, GRUCHEL Marian
And for the BIG : GOBERT Daniel, DESENDER Marc

2) How to work
We have to decide if we're working altogether through emails with "answer to everybody" or in the forum. But, very important, everybody among the 8 persons must be in knowledge of all the news, not to mix the works and to be efficient.

3) Dates of the meeting
04->09/07/2012 (it seems to be holidays in some countries and it's summer)

4) The climbs
We want to include 14 BIGs inside the 5 days : 5 in PL, 5 in CZ, 4 in SK. But it is a maximum, not an obligation for everybody

5) the hostels
We think that the best places are Vrchlabi (CZ) the nights of the 4/7 & 5/7; Sumperk (CZ) the night of the 6/7 and Dolny Kubin or Námestovo (SK but close to polish border) for the last 2 nights.
We already have an opportunity in Vrchlabi with the hostel Albis
http://www.hotelalbis.cz/?home,1
You can see what we're searching like hostels. Generally, the couples (husband+wife) take a double-room and the cyclists alone are in triple or 4-5-6 people-rooms.
If you have any idea about an hostel for the last 3 days, it would be welcome.

6) the stages :
the local managers have to manage the tours :

Jour/day 1 : KRKNOSE TOUR (organized by CZ and PL managers)
836.Vrbatova Bouda
827. Przel'ecz Okraj
837. Spindlerova Bouda

Jour/day 2 : JESENIKY TOUR (organized by CZ managers)
838. Sùchy Vrch
839. Cevernohorske Sedlo
840. Pradíd

Jour/day 3 : EAST-TATRAS TOUR (organized by SK and PL managers)
826.Przehyba
843. Tatliakovo Jazero
844. Sedlo Certovica

jour/day 4 : POLISH TOUR (organized by PL managers)
828.Przel'ecz Salmopolska
829. Przel'ecz Krowiarki
830. Glodowka

jour/day 5 : WEST-TATRAS TOUR (organized by SK managers)
845. Slieszky Dom
846. Martinske Hole

7) The small, average and long tours
Every day, the participants must have the choice inside a programm. There must be a small (40-50km) and a long tour (100 km and even more). It can be an average tour (60-70km) or possibilities to reach only the feet of the BIGs with a personal car. The small tour mustv at least cover 1 BIG. The long tour must cover all the bigs previewed inside the day. There must be a fork of time (for example : from 10.30 AM to 11.00 AM) for reaching the top of a definite BIG, in the target to have the ability to take pictures and to meet together somewhere in the road. The groups start together but everybody cycles with his own speed. Nobody is really obliged to follow the programm and it can exist external programms of visits for the drivers or the wives coming with their husband.

The general organization of the 6 days
The first day, the local managers would have to be there first to welcome the arrivals. The evening dinners must be included in the general price of the hostels and the breakfasts too (half-pension) but not the lunch at midday (on the road). The first dinner is the occasion for the president to explain who is there and to make knowledge one to another.
The second day, we make the tours and afterwards we come back to the hostel. Eventually, a visit can be organized from 17PM to 19PM. After dinner, the president makes his speech.
The third day, we tranfer our cars to Sumperk, cycle the tours and afterwards arrive in the hostel. A visit can be organized from 17PM to 19PM. After dinner, the Quizz game about the challenge and cycling and cycloclimbing is organized by the secretary.
The fourth day, we transfer our cars to the last hostel, cycle the tours and afterwards arrive in the hostel. A visit can be organized from 17PM to 19PM. After dinner, it's the time of the debate about the challenge for the future and the coming meetings.
The fifth day, we ride the polish bigs and come back to the hostel. A visit can be organized from 17PM to 19PM. After dinner, the "goodbye drink" is paid by the committee.
The sixth day, we ride the last tour and everybody can come back home with his own car in the evening and the night or can stay one more night in the hostel if he prefers to come back during the next day.

With my best regards
Dan.

I understood preliminary assumptions.
I have yet to analyze them.

We can discuss on the forum.

My Pre-note
- Too many nights in the Czech Republic, and none in Poland

PL
Zrozumiałem założenia wstepne.
Musze je jeszcze przeanalizować.

Mozemy dyskutowac na forum.

Moja wstepna uwaga
- za duzo noclegow w Czechach, a zadnego w Polsce

Is Zakopane a good place to reach the 8 BIGs in Tatras ?
Is this possible to reach easily roads with some speed for the cars from Zakopane ?
If yes, why not to have the hostel for the last 2 days there ?
Or we can have 1 day in Poland and 1 day in Slovakia...
But it's a lot much more luggages to wear every evening...

I have to analyze.
Zakopane, Kowary, Jelenia Gora, Wisła or Głuchołazy?

What it Michalk?

PL
Muszę to przeanalizować.
Zakopane, Kowary, Jelenia Góra, Wisła czy Głuchołazy ?

Co na to Michalk ?

Hi,
can you give both your email adress here ?
CZ and SK managers prefer to trade the organization through mails .
No problems for you ?

I write here their last information through mails :

Hi,
I think that Vrchlabi (and surroundings) is the best starting point. There can start long tour with 2 BIGs: Janske-Lazne – Przelecz Okraj – Kowary – Spindlerova Bouda/ Prz. Karkonoska – Spindleruv Mlyn – Vrchlabi or short tour to Zlate navrsi and/or the highest asphalted road in CZ: Modre sedlo.
The hotel seems OK, but the prices are: single room: 25€, double: 40€, apartment 4 people: 74€, tourist accomondation 10€. + 2€ surcharge for only a night stay. Do you take common accomondation or everybody has his own (or with a well-known friend/ spouse) room? However I do not have an experience with the hotels in Vrchlabi.
Sumperk is not in Slovakia, it is still in CZ and it is among the remaining 3 BIGs in CZ. When I asked Zbynek for references in Moravian (eastern part of CZ) area he told me that he would prefer some accomondation in Jeseniky mts. Like Jesenik, Rejviz, Vrbno p. Pradedem which are eastern from BIGs in Jeseniky and Suchy vrch make by the way there.
According to the BIG web the stay in SK is planned in Dolny Kubin.
Looking on the preliminary program I have a question:
do you think that it is better to arrive all of a sweat from bike tour and go to hotel in another city? I would prefer to to wake up, move to starting point of a new stage, accomondate, make the tour, take a shower, have a dinner, go to bed and in the morning move to next mountains. What do you think about it?
Pavel


Dear Daniel,
I read the your forum text with the polish guys Michal and Marian.
Now I have more information concerning days, BIGs, directions and program for TATRAS 2012...
I see that Marian (Tigris) would like to have at least 1 Night in Zakopane...OK I will wait for his proposals...and after the finally decision I can manage accommodation for 0 or 1 or 2 nights in Slovakia...
Concerning your question I prefer e-mails. I vote for sharing of information via e-mails:-)))
Daniel I have some questions:
You wrote in forum text a visit can be organized from 17PM to 19PM. What does mean organize a visit?
The start and the finish of small / average / long tours should be from the hotel place or is it possible to move to the other start place by car? This question is especially for the small 40/50km tours.. Pavel Vanis had similar remark in his e-mail, so far I remember...
Should the workers/managers care about the lunch? If yes is it necessary to arrange some restaurant for lunch or it is foreseen to provide lunch packages in the morning?
Have a nice evening and thank you very much in advance for your replies
Rastislav


Hi all,
The lunch packages should be organised by managers or everybody takes its own lunch package?
As for accomondation booking in Vrchlabi – I will address them next week or second week in July, I have a lot of work now.
And there is a little problem with me. I do not have a car and the meeting is organised really as very mobile. Do you think that someone will have a free seat in his car + bike carrier?
Regards,
Pavel

Gives my e-mail address:

Podaje mój adres e-mailowy :

tigris-1@wp.pl

for day 1 : KRKNOSE TOUR (organized by CZ and PL managers)
836.Vrbatova Bouda
827. Przel'ecz Okraj
837. Spindlerova Bouda

It is possible to make an asphalted loop with the last 2 BIGS with 101 km and 60 km tour for the first one. It makes 161 km of total distance. Addition of Modre Sedlo will increase a whole distance only by 22 km (11 km one-way from Velka Upa junction)

for day 2 : JESENIKY TOUR (organized by CZ managers)
838. Sùchy Vrch
839. Cevernohorske Sedlo
840. Pradíd

It is possible to take a train (only on saturdays, sundays and public holidays) from Sumperk to Cervena Voda (at 7:16, arrives at 9:40 with 2 changes) and from there it will take 160 km to catch all three BIGs

Other days must be reorganized:
It is possible to make Głodówka and Sliezsky Dom during one loop around Tatra: 207 km with 8 mountain passes.

The loop from Namestovo with Krowiarki and Salmopol is 204 km, it includes 6 mountain passes.

It is easier to combine Skalka and Martinske Hole than Sliezsky Dom and Martinske Hole ...

Przehyba is far away ...

Sounds interesting! Might be something I wish to do next Summer ... . /Jerry

I will try to include here some online maps with indicated routes for 2012 Tatra meeting. I start this list from the last day:


08.07.2012
Two possibilities:
Loop around Tatra - very good idea for road bicycles, recommended especially during nice weather:
http://www.bikemap.net/route/1645789

Travelling with bike in car and short trips:
Przehyba: http://www.bikemap.net/route/1645816
Cyrhla nad Bialka / Glodowka: http://www.bikemap.net/route/1645832
Velicke pleso / Sliezsky dom: http://www.bikemap.net/route/1645846

You can change the language on these websites by clicking a small text button "Wybierz język" close to the top right corner of a website. Most of European languages are included.

Created some loops when trying to get a grip on the possibilities myself and these are the ones I came up with (some may be helped by taking the car part of the way ...). Just "ideas"! (that I likely will not follow much of myself even). I guess the main idea is doing many BIGs and cycling with other BIG cyclists, so ... . That said:

Tatras day 1 -- might change this to take in the highest road in Czechia instead (per Pavel's suggestion):
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=zhcnnxbdmaqsrrbq

Tatras day 2 I extended a little to take in the pass missed from the ”average tour" in the ”long tour”:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=aknkqmpuzdstrtik

Tatras day 3 Matinske holé + Skalka:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=zghdtfhxuwzjzzxa
+
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=ufpmnkcaagnphwlp

Tatras day 4:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=gqydtkrtntvpkmaz

Tatras day 5:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=oxarrualxxpdfhef

eyeless wrote:

Created some loops when trying to get a grip on the possibilities myself and these are the ones I came up with (some may be helped by taking the car part of the way ...). Just "ideas"! (that I likely will not follow much of myself even). I guess the main idea is doing many BIGs and cycling with other BIG cyclists, so ... . That said:

Tatras day 1 -- might change this to take in the highest road in Czechia instead (per Pavel's suggestion):
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=zhcnnxbdmaqsrrbq

This is the highest road in Czechia, I climbed it several years ago.
http://www.genetyk.com/podjazdy/modre1.html

It is the highest, the steepest and the most difficult paved climb in the whole country. Perhaps now is open for cyclists but it was marked "no bike" sign 7 years ago. You can do it on the way to Okraj - just go left to Pec pod Snezkou and follow the bike trail to "Vyrovka".

Looks great! Will surely try and do the Modré sedlo (1508 m)!

Here's a new possible route for day 1:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=wrrvsfaolujjsuce
(the connecting road from Horní Mísecky to Spindleruv Mlýn might be gravel in part... but still seems like a good choice)

eyeless wrote:

Here's a new possible route for day 1:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=wrrvsfaolujjsuce
(the connecting road from Horní Mísecky to Spindleruv Mlýn might be gravel in part... but still seems like a good choice)

5113 m? 4h for ascents .. a mistake. The biketrail was asphalted in middle 80. See googlemaps and shocart.
http://www.cykloserver.cz/
For Polish trails our goverment server is perfect:
http://maps.geoportal.gov.pl/webclient/ {click "tak} = yes

take option "skany map topograficznych" and "akceptuj" (while zooming to house detail) and later check out "dane administracyjne" and "dane o charakterze katastralnym". Now you got a map worth 15 mln EUR but you are allowed to use it only "on personal use". Good luck! It was already paid by the EU, so don't hesitate to use it.

michalk wrote:

eyeless wrote:

Here's a new possible route for day 1:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=wrrvsfaolujjsuce
(the connecting road from Horní Mísecky to Spindleruv Mlýn might be gravel in part... but still seems like a good choice)

5113 m? 4h for ascents .. a mistake. The biketrail was asphalted in middle 80. See googlemaps and shocart.
http://www.cykloserver.cz/
For Polish trails our goverment server is perfect:
http://maps.geoportal.gov.pl/webclient/ {click "tak} = yes

take option "skany map topograficznych" and "akceptuj" (while zooming to house detail) and later check out "dane administracyjne" and "dane o charakterze katastralnym". Now you got a map worth 15 mln EUR but you are allowed to use it only "on personal use". Good luck! It was already paid by the EU, so don't hesitate to use it.

I only looked at Google maps, so could not tell the state of this road from the satellite images there (but it looks like gravel in part there, but the images might be old). The heights given by sites like gpsies.com are usually not accurate at all. I only use it for measuring approximate distances (and remembering the route).

michalk wrote:

eyeless wrote:

Here's a new possible route for day 1:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=wrrvsfaolujjsuce
(the connecting road from Horní Mísecky to Spindleruv Mlýn might be gravel in part... but still seems like a good choice)

5113 m? 4h for ascents .. a mistake. The biketrail was asphalted in middle 80. See googlemaps and shocart.
http://www.cykloserver.cz/
For Polish trails our goverment server is perfect:
http://maps.geoportal.gov.pl/webclient/ {click "tak} = yes

take option "skany map topograficznych" and "akceptuj" (while zooming to house detail) and later check out "dane administracyjne" and "dane o charakterze katastralnym". Now you got a map worth 15 mln EUR but you are allowed to use it only "on personal use". Good luck! It was already paid by the EU, so don't hesitate to use it.

Ok, with the help of these resources - thanks Michal! - what about this route:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=efpibtdhbokrresc
Only a little over 125 km taking in all! :-)
The biggest problem here is finding the way ... and the slopes of course ... . If anyone wants to do this, I am with you!

The details (name; height; km; notes)
Vrchlabí 500
Krízovky 725 6,1 pass
Benecko 555 13,3 fr. 850
Vrbatova Bouda 1412 28,3 mountain BIG836
Horní Mísecky 1020 33,4 pass
Spindleruv Mlýn 700 40,7 fr. 1115
Spindlerova Bouda/Karkonoska Przelecz 1197 50,1 BIG837
Jez. Sosnówka 367 62,3
Karpacz 540 71,9
Kowary 440 77,4
Przelecz Kowarska 728 83,2 pass
Rozdroze Kowarski 798 85,1 pass
Przelecz Okraj 1046 89,6 pass BIG827
Spálený Mlýn 775 94,7 road via Dolní Malá Úpa
Janouvy Boudy 910 96,8
Pec Pod Snezkou 775 100,8 fr. 704
Kaplicka/Modra Sedlo (Lucní Bouda) 1511 108,5
Seidlovy Domky 795 121 pass 1416->1511->752
Vrchlabí 522 125,2

eyeless wrote:

The details (name; height; km; notes)
Vrchlabí 500
Krízovky 725 6,1 pass
Benecko 555 13,3 fr. 850
Vrbatova Bouda 1412 28,3 mountain BIG836
Horní Mísecky 1020 33,4 pass

All should be asphalted, however you should follow the bike trails (9 or 10)

eyeless wrote:

Horní Mísecky 1020 33,4 pass
Spindleruv Mlýn 700 40,7 fr. 1115

There is no fully asphalted version, only a gravel-asphalt. The best idea for a road bike is to follow trail 12 (another 130 m of uphill). Uphill was rough gravel, downhill section was narrow strip of tar, steep and fast (7 years ago...).

eyeless wrote:

Spindleruv Mlýn 700 40,7 fr. 1115
Spindlerova Bouda/Karkonoska Przelecz 1197 50,1 BIG837
Jez. Sosnówka 367 62,3
Karpacz 540 71,9
Kowary 440 77,4
Przelecz Kowarska 728 83,2 pass
Rozdroze Kowarski 798 85,1 pass
Przelecz Okraj 1046 89,6 pass BIG827
Spálený Mlýn 775 94,7 road via Dolní Malá Úpa
Janouvy Boudy 910 96,8
Pec Pod Snezkou 775 100,8 fr. 704

Section of 1,5 km unasphalted on the meadow below Janouvy Boudy! If you follow the main road (yellow), you will go 1 hour faster.

eyeless wrote:

Pec Pod Snezkou 775 100,8 fr. 704
Kaplicka/Modra Sedlo (Lucní Bouda) 1511 108,5
Seidlovy Domky 795 121 pass 1416->1511->752
Vrchlabí 522 125,2

If you want to find the right road in Pec, you must print this section of map with the highest resolution and take this sheet of paper with you.
Moreover, there is one section with raw mountain road, between Vyrovka and Dvorska bouda (1,8 km). Perhaps it is possible to go even with a road bike but only downhill and very slow.

I will NOT be able to participate in 2012 Tatras meeting. Sorry, this decision not depends on me. Anyway, I still can help you with the route, road surface, public transport or any other questions.

michalk wrote:

eyeless wrote:

The details (name; height; km; notes)
Vrchlabí 500
Krízovky 725 6,1 pass
Benecko 555 13,3 fr. 850
Vrbatova Bouda 1412 28,3 mountain BIG836
Horní Mísecky 1020 33,4 pass

All should be asphalted, however you should follow the bike trails (9 or 10)

The road suggested via Benecko was simply the shortest one (out of several possible variants), but a lower one marked as a suggested cycle path *looks* like having a better surface than the higher, wider road ... .

eyeless wrote:

Horní Mísecky 1020 33,4 pass
Spindleruv Mlýn 700 40,7 fr. 1115

There is no fully asphalted version, only a gravel-asphalt. The best idea for a road bike is to follow trail 12 (another 130 m of uphill). Uphill was rough gravel, downhill section was narrow strip of tar, steep and fast (7 years ago...).[/quote]

Yes, this section looks like the most problematic one, but the the gravel stretch is no more than 2 km or so. (Saw one photo which also did not give a very good idea of the actual surface.)

michalk wrote:

eyeless wrote:

Spindleruv Mlýn 700 40,7 fr. 1115
Spindlerova Bouda/Karkonoska Przelecz 1197 50,1 BIG837
Jez. Sosnówka 367 62,3
Karpacz 540 71,9
Kowary 440 77,4
Przelecz Kowarska 728 83,2 pass
Rozdroze Kowarski 798 85,1 pass
Przelecz Okraj 1046 89,6 pass BIG827
Spálený Mlýn 775 94,7 road via Dolní Malá Úpa
Janouvy Boudy 910 96,8
Pec Pod Snezkou 775 100,8 fr. 704

Section of 1,5 km unasphalted on the meadow below Janouvy Boudy! If you follow the main road (yellow), you will go 1 hour faster.

Just thought this would be nicer (not faster), and there should be at least one fully asphalted way to get down here (seems like two such variants if the cycle map is of any help).

michalk wrote:

eyeless wrote:

Pec Pod Snezkou 775 100,8 fr. 704
Kaplicka/Modra Sedlo (Lucní Bouda) 1511 108,5
Seidlovy Domky 795 121 pass 1416->1511->752
Vrchlabí 522 125,2

If you want to find the right road in Pec, you must print this section of map with the highest resolution and take this sheet of paper with you.
Moreover, there is one section with raw mountain road, between Vyrovka and Dvorska bouda (1,8 km). Perhaps it is possible to go even with a road bike but only downhill and very slow.

I saw one photo of this stretch and it looks ok. Finding the way might be tricky without a good map ... yes ;-) -- will see if I get time to print something out ... .

Now it looks like there will be rain in the area during these days, but we can always hope .... . I also noted that one could get up to Snezkou (1602m) on a cobblestoned road from Poland, but one could get up to this road from Lucní Bouda rather easily (probably walking half or more of +1 km). Pavel told me that it is forbidden to bicycle on this road, but I saw a photo of a guy cycling up there and guess that short-cutting up from Lucní Bouda might be a way to avoid any guards stopping you!? Would be nice to go there if the weather will be fine .... !